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This week, Lale guest stars on an episode of Dinner Party SOS with Bon Appétit food director and host Chris Morocco and food editor Shilpa Uskokovic to find meals to cook on vacation for a group with a lot of dietary restrictions.
Lale and her friends take frequent trips to Long Island. It’s all fun and games until they have to decide what to cook for dinner. Everyone seems to have a different allergy or aversion to something. Except for Lale, of course, who eats everything yet is paralyzed by the question of what to cook for everyone else. One of her friends can’t eat nightshades (a family of plants that includes eggplant, peppers, and tomatoes), her husband doesn’t like cheese, and others avoid shellfish and red meat.
Chris and Shilpa brainstorm some universal crowd pleasers. From Chris, Sesame Tofu with Broccoli and Peanut Butter Noodles, both all-star recipes from developer Hetty McKinnon. From Shilpa, Easy Fish Tacos with lots of optional toppings for servings, which in this crowd, ensures there’s something for everyone. Chris and Shilpa also share tips for what to pack when planning to cook on vacation (like oil, salt, pepper, and a paring knife) to save yourself from having to buy a whole pantry at the store.
Listen now to hear which recipe Lale selects for her tough crowd of eaters and whether they all survive the weekend (spoiler alert: they do).
Lale Arikoglu: Hi, Women Who Travel listeners. It's me, Lale. This week I'm doing something a bit different, and teaming up with our friends over at Bon Appetit for a special episode of Dinner SOS.
Keep listening to hear host Chris Morocco and food editor Shilpa Uskokovic put their heads together and help me prepare a Greek dinner for some travelers with pretty specific dietary restrictions. We get very confused about what a nightshade is, but I promise we find a solution in the end. It's also an absolute giggle. So give it a listen, and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of Women Who Travel.
[inaudible 00:00:36]-
Chris Morocco: Just like a little pa-pa-pa. You know? A little ch-ch. You know?
Shilpa Uskokovic: [laughs] No.
CM: And you're done.
Yeah.
SU: I'm done [laughs], for sure.
CM: [laughs] Shilpa's definitely done.
SU: A little, a little te-pa-pa-pa [laughs].
CM: Shilpa will be leaving us now.
SU: [laughs]
CM: Hey there listeners, future callers, and cooking enthusiasts. This is Dinner SOS, the show where we help you save dinner or whatever you're cooking.
I'm CM, Food Director of Bon Appetit and Epicurious. Our caller this week, LA, is an incredibly adventurous person and eater. She's the Articles Director at our sister publication, Conde Nast Traveler, and host their Women Who Travel podcast.
LA: People respond to a woman traveling by herself boldly in her 30s-
SU: Hm.
LA: ... in many strange ways.
SU: Mm-hmm.
LA: To the point where I was in the Amazon Rainforest and a man asked me in response to me telling him when to watch the sunrise, he asked me when I was gonna have children.
SU: [laughs] God.
LA: [laughs] And I was like, how have I got this far?
SU: How did we get here? [laughs]
CM: But when you travel with other people, you're often beholden to their food preferences.
LA: I have a group of friends that I like to go away with semi-regularly, to Long Island. A friend of mine's parents have a lovely house there. And one thing I've learned from experience... 'Cause we all weigh in and cook on different nights,-
CM: Mm.
LA: ... but I've learned that every single person has a different dietary requirement or just doesn't like something.
CM: Sure.
LA: So I have a friend who can't eat nightshades, from, which I understand is like tomatoes,-
CM: Eggplant, peppers.
LA: Yeah, lots of-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... delicious and also summery things. I mean,- CM: Very Summary things.
LA: ... tomatoes in the summer. CM: Like ratatouille, just-
LA: Yeah.
CM: ... of the list.
LA: I have my husband, who controversially hates cheese,- CM: Okay.
LA: ... and will just-
CM: Just-
LA: I think I-
CM: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay.
LA: I think I just [laughs]-
CM: No, I was like we can move past this.
LA: [laughs]
CM: We can move past this, but it's... Okay. I mean, like did he not grow up with cheese?
LA: So, he grew up in a family divided by cheese. His dad and his brother also hate cheese. The women in his family love cheese. Always eat, gobbling up a cheese plate. Um,- CM: English or American?
LA: American. So, I heard... Sorry, everyone. I seem to maybe hear he'd just never eaten good cheese.
CM: Right.
LA: But it really is all cheese.
CM: Mm.
LA: But there's caveats to it, which is where it starts to get really confusing. Because he doesn't like cheese, but he loves pizza.
CM: Oh.
LA: Lasagna, fine.
CM: Hm.
LA: Parmesan on top of a tomato sauce, literally cannot eat it.
CM: What?
I was so prepared for you to say fine.
LA: [laughs] Right?
CM: I'm reeling. Okay. Okay.
LA: He's, uh... When, when there was that moment of silence, I think I could feel him somewhere in this city sigh, and be like,-
CM: "She's talking about me," yeah.
LA: ... "She's talk- she's talking about it. She's brought it up."
CM: Sh-... Yeah, "She's brought it up. She led with it."
LA: It is one-
CM: "That was her opener."
LA: ... truly polarizing opinion of his. Um,-
CM: 'Cause I think it's cool to like not like cheese full stop, right?
LA: Yeah.
CM: Or like he didn't grow up with like dairy in certain forms and it's just not on your list, and like, okay, you know, no problem.
LA: But it's far more complex and nuanced. And-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... you know, I've known this man for 12 years now. Still... Yesterday I found out that he actually is okay with feta, if it's a little bit of feta.
CM: Wow. 'Cause feta's like... It can get kind of funky-
LA: Yeah.
CM: ... in there. I find feta is divisive for me, personally.
LA: I'm kind of convinced that he actually didn't know what type of cheese he was talking about.
CM: Okay.
LA: Maybe he thought it was a halloumi.
CM: I don't know.
LA: [laughs]
CM: I mean... [laughs].
LA: Anyway. So, we have him.
CM: Okay.
LA: We have my friend who can't eat nightshade. I have another friend who-
CM: My God.
LA: ... doesn't like shellfish. But he's actually becoming shellfish curious, I will say. And then finally, a friend who doesn't eat red meat.
CM: Mm.
LA: And then there's myself, who eats everything, and one other friend who also eats everything.
CM: Okay. Wow. What have, what have you done in the past that's been successful? Or has nothing been successful?
LA: Oh, there's definitely been some successes. And I wou- I also want to say that, you know, as I list this out, it sounds like I have a group of really fussy eaters, and actually it's a group of like very adventurous... Very well-traveled people, who love trying new things-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... and new flavors. They're just-
CM: Oh, yeah. I mean, we all have our stuff, right?
LA: Yeah, exactly.
CM: No. I mean, no... I, I've... Oh my gosh. Like I would say I'm not like a terribly picky eater, but I'm betting a l- lot of people on my team would like roll their eyes and be like, "Um, bananas, peanut butter,-
LA: [laughs]
CM: ... lamb." You know, like the list goes on. You know?
I mean, it's just sometimes we like what we like, right?
LA: Yeah.
CM: But I think... You know, like o- one thing we've explored on this show is sort of like listen, there's sort of liking what you like and trying to expand outward from wherever you are... In terms of the things that you, you know, appreciate eating, but then there's the question of just like you just can't eat certain things or you just have like cilantro reflex level kind of aversion to certain foods. And like, you're not gonna just work through that, right?
LA: Right. And I pretty much eat everyting, but there is one thing that I genuinely just am repulsed by,-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... and it's sun dried tomatoes.
CM: Ooh, I kind of hate them too.
LA: I think most people don't like them.
CM: I was starting to ask you about, you know, w- whether you've had suc- like some successes,-
LA: Oh, yes.
CM: ... but we digressed because we wanted to make allowances for the fact that people like what they like... Sometimes they can't eat certain things,-
LA: Mm-hmm.
CM: ... that's life. We just have to like find a way to move on. And I'm curious like what that has looked like in the past?
LA: So, there were two successes. One was... My friend who is allergic to nightshades made it, and it was a, like a summery corn pasta.
CM: Mmm.
LA: Which was veggie and didn't have any of the things that she was allergic to in it, but it still felt like a really rich, creamy pasta. And it also didn't have any dairy in it.
CM: And no parm or anything?
LA: Optional, on the side.
CM: Optional, on the side. Okay. Okay.
LA: Obviously better with it,-
CM: Sure.
LA: ... but... And it had lots of fresh mint on it and basil. So, that was a success.
And then another one was a cilantro chicken curry,
CM: Mmm.
LA: ... which I think was by Meera Sodha, and a real hit. It pleased everyone. 'Cause it was meat, but it didn't have red meat in it. Again, there was no nightshade, doesn't require cheese. It was great.
CM: Yeah.
LA: And it was spicy and flavorful, and people got seconds. And also I feel like when you make something-
CM: There wasn't any chili in there for your nightshade friend?
LA: It was there.
CM: That's okay. I mean,-
LA: There might have been some.
CM: Interesting.
LA: I don't know, she didn't complain the next day. CM: Yeah.
LA: So, sorry.
CM: She's still here.
LA: [laughs]
CM: Um, Meera, the queen. Honestly,-
LA: Uh, just fantastic.
CM: ... she flies a little bit under the radar in the US, I think.
LA: I think so too. In the UK, she is-
CM: She's big.
LA: She's big, yeah.
CM: Yeah. And, and I feel like there's an ease to her recipes. Like she's very like non-dogmatic in terms of like her approaches, but there's an ease to her recipes. And I've literally had friends who I'd say, you know, were capable but not amazing cooks-
LA: Mm-hmm.
CM: ... like cook her recipes, and been like, "Wow, what is this?" And-
LA: I made a,-
CM: ... it's stunning.
LA: ... I made a dal of hers, that was... I feel like I've tried so many different dal recipes and, and it'd always just been a bit thick... Or a bit stodgy and just wasn't working, but this one, it like, it just came together so well. And again, it was just like... It tasted like dal,-
CM: Mm-hmm.
LA: ... which none of the recipes I'd tried before had.
CM: Yeah.
LA: I love her.
CM: Yeah.
LA: I think she's great.
CM: Phenomenal.
LA: Yeah.
CM: Oh, that's great. I love that.
Um, it's... Listen, uh, I'm so excited to, to do a deep dive on some of these limitations and like honestly turn it around and just look at what the possibilities are. It's great you've found a little bit of success in the past cooking, you know, with your friends or, you know, various friends cooking for the group, and I'm sure we'll be able to find some great stuff for you to choose from... And feel like it's not like one good option, but you have multiple. Um,-
LA: I'm so excited. I could then just volunteer to cook for the whole week, rather than my one night.
CM: I mean, your choice, but sure, if you want to go there.
LA: [laughs]
SU: That's it. Everybody just [laughs] goes home.
LA: [laughing]
SU: Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
CM: When I brought Lale's list of dietary restrictions for the weekend to my colleague SU, she had some strong feelings.
SU: What should happen, is they should hire like a personal chef and be done with it.
It's too much. This is a vacation. Everybody needs to be having a good time. And one person can't be responsible for everybody else's dietary restrictions. Like, I believe-
CM: That's actually exactly what-
SU: [laughs]
CM: ... the issue is, and that's why we have a podcast. The answer can't just be that everybody needs to get a person chef.
SU: No, it's not that, then. I was being dramatic, for sure.
CM: Yeah.
SU: [laughs]
CM: With Shilpa on board to offer some solutions that Lale can cook herself, [laughs] we went our separate ways to brainstorm. After the break, we'll get Lale back in the studio to hear what she thinks.
Welcome back to Dinner SOS. So Shilpa and I got Lale back in the studio, and we started talking vacation cooking. By the way, we had [laughs] this conversation in late August, so some of the produce we're talking about might not be quite in season anymore.
Also, [laughs] a quick warning. Dear listeners, sometimes on the show we have to pivot on the spot, and this conversation is no exception.
Are you looking forward to your time-
LA: I am.
CM: ... like out of the country?
LA: I'm really looking forward to us all cooking together. And there's gonna be a little baby around,-
CM: Wow.
LA: ... who won't be eating this menu, but-
SU: [laughs]
CM: [laughs] Great.
Shilpa, I don't know. I, I could go first. You could go first. I feel like I've been talking a lot today. SU: Okay.
CM: Do you want me to talk more?
I'll do it.
SU: Okay. Okay.
CM: Okay.
SU: Go, go for it [laughs].
CM: Yeah? All right.
SU: [laughs] You're freshly returned from a vacation,-
CM: [laughs]
SU: ... and you are, you are a new blossom. Continue. [laughs]
CM: Ah, a new blossom.
SU: [laughs]
CM: That is, that is me in a n- nutshell.
Okay. So I think it's so easy to focus on the constraint rather than what's left, which is still a lot. You know? And what a funny thing that like... I don't know, that's how my mind works. It's like, "What? No nightshades?"
LA: Oh yeah.
CM: Suddenly like all I want to give you is eggplant. Eggplant and tomato. And especially, you're gonna be out like end of August, or thereabouts.
LA: Right?
CM: Right?
LA: Prime, prime tomato time.
CM: Prime tomato time. But like, not that weekend. Maybe some other time. Right? LA: Okay. All right. Yeah. [inaudible 00:11:24].
CM: Yeah, which is... Yeah. I mean, they're just off the list.
LA: I'm not gonna be resentful about it.
CM: No, it's fine. You know, th- you'll get your tomato kicks in some other time.
LA: I'll have the whole summer.
CM: Yeah.
But I started thinking, "Okay. Well, if you can still do nuts... Peanuts. As long as you can still do soy,-
LA: Mm-hmm.
CM: ... you can do alliums." There's like, greatness lurks there.
LA: And we, and we could do fish, 'cause it's-
CM: Yeah, you could do fish. Not that I'm gonna give you any, but like-
LA: All right. Okay. Ooh, in- intrigued.
CM: You know, but you could.
LA: [laughs]
CM: You could.
LA: You could.
CM: So, there's a f-... You know, there's a few ingredients here... A handful of which are kind of a pantry staple, that can... This is where I was sort of like oh, if it's a house you're renting, often those kinds of kitchens don't necessarily have a lot, so like how many things do you want to buy a full bottle of?
LA: That's always a dilemma I have.
CM: Yeah.
LA: Um, I also was just away for a few days in a cabin in Maine with a, a couple of people who eat everything,-
CM: Mm.
LA: ... so completely different menu. But you end up when you go grocery shopping, spending so much money-
SU: Mm-hmm.
LA: ... because you have to get all the-
CM: Starting from scratch.
LA: ... pantry items. Yeah.
CM: Yeah.
Salt, you know, neutral oil, olive... I mean, it just... Sky's the limit.
LA: Yeah.
CM: So I mean, if you are able to pack certain things from home, 'cause you knew in advance what your menu was, it might be worth doing so.
LA: I think that's a great idea.
CM: So-
LA: And I have done that with things for cocktails before.
CM: Oh, nice.
SU: Mm.
CM: All right.
LA: So-
CM: So it's a well-trod path here.
SU: I think last year... Was it last year? Or the year before, maybe. But we did like a digital package. Do you remember? On like cooking on vacation. And then Emma, I think, wrote a beautiful piece about all the things you should pack food-wise when you're going to like a rental which has a kitchen and you plan on cooking.
LA: This is such a good idea, and I'm annoyed that Traveler hasn't done it.
SU: [laughing]
CM: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
SU: It was great. And, uh, sh-... I think she suggested salt, oil, pepper, and some tools as well. Like a Microplane, uh, a paring knife, stuff like that. It was a very useful one.
CM: You know, I often pack my own salt. Like 'cause Diamond Crystal kosher, it's n-... Sometimes you can't find it elsewhere. Just little things like that, little gift to yourself, you know, to set yourself up for success.
LA: And I don't know why, somehow it feels slightly ridiculous to start packing spices, but I'm like, "I pack makeup. I pack-
SU: Yeah.
CM: Mm-hmm.
LA: ... toiletries. Why can't my spices and seasonings be part of-
SU: Yeah.
LA: ... that list?"
CM: Yeah.
SU: I always make these little-
CM: Little packets?
SU: Yeah [laughs].
CM: You do the packets?
SU: You know exactly what [laughs]-
CM: How do you fold them, though? Is there like an origami shape for that?
SU: Yeah. Yeah, it is [laughs].
CM: We need-
LA: Wait, what are the packets?
SU: I made these little origami-
CM: [laughs]
SU: ... like pouches. And you can make them as [laughs],-
CM: I love that you do that.
SU: ... you can make them as little or as large as you want. And then instead of taking a bottle, which is heavy and could break, you just put your spices into this little paper pouch and you can bring them with you on vacation. And then toss whatever... You know, if there's anything left, or bring it back. And just pack them really neatly.
LA: [laughs]
CM: Shilpa's gonna find an appropriate video to-
SU: [laughs] Yes.
CM: ... describe what she's talking about,-
SU: [laughs]
CM: ... and we'll drop it in the show notes.
SU: [laughs]
CM: People need to know. Seriously, this is a game changer.
SU: It is. I loved it.
LA: Yeah.
SU: Yeah.
I think it's a smart idea.
LA: Right, right, right now, I'm envisioning... Which no one can see me doing, but that like child's paper game that you do.
SU: It's almost exactly like that.
LA: Okay.
SU: It's almost exactly like that. Yeah [laughs].
CM: Yeah, like the little fortune teller?
SU: Yes.
CM: Love that.
LA: [laughs]
CM: All right, I have two. That's, that was my preamble. Let's just get into it. Basically, they're both Hetty McKinnon recipes.
LA: Oh my God, I love Hetty McKinnon. Oh, great [laughs].
SU: She's great.
CM: The first is sesame tofu with broccoli, which is kind of a bit of a stir fry of sorts. Okay? So you've got tofu, you've got a lot of broccoli, and then you've got scallion, ginger, garlic. And you have soy sauce, but it could be tamari, a little bit of maple syrup... Or light or dark brown sugar, for sweetness, tahini,-
LA: Ooh.
CM: ... Another flavor powerhouse.
So the trick here is really just that you're, you're cutting the tofu up and then you're coating it fairly liberally in cornstarch. Cornstarch, you know, it a- helps absorb a little bit of that excess moisture... Drying out the surface of the tofu, so it browns a little bit more readily and gets crispier. But, but starch itself wants to get crispy in the cooking environment when introduced to hot fat, in this case oil.
I mean, it's a simple thing, you know? But you're just kind of drying it out and crisping it, and then you're just lacquering it in a very flavorful... I'm trying to think of other kind of like synonyms. You know, a shellac. No, that's terrible.
LA: [laughs]
CM: Let's not say that. Take that out. Um, you're then-
LA: That makes it sound very glossy.
CM: ... lacquering it... Yeah. Well, it's, it is a little bit of a glossy sauce, right? 'Cause it's, it's got the body of the tahini, it's got the aromatics of the garlic, ginger, and scallion, it's gonna want to kind of get a little bit syrupy and just... Not sweet, but just have like a good kind of like sweet, savory, salty balance, thanks to the sugar. And it's something that I think is like, it's relatively easy to do. You know what I mean?
LA: Mm-hmm.
CM: Like, you don't need to like tackle a project here.
Next one is also heady, as I mentioned. This is her peanut butter noodle recipe, that also has cucumbers in it. And part of what I was thinking about is, you know, you could use the sort of inclusion of cucumbers here just as a sort of starting point. Maybe there's gonna be a, a kind of roadside market nearby. S- there could be opportunities, point being to add other things to these noodles. Maybe there's like, you know, nice-looking green beans that day, or baby peas, or Romano beans.
LA: Ooh.
CM: Ooh.
Oh, yeah.
SU: [laughs]
LA: Ooh, unexpected.
SU: I love when you're impressing yourself. It's great.
CM: I love Romano beans.
LA: Just throwing out a-
SU: Yeah [laughs].
LA: ... Romano bean.
CM: I just... They're those broad, flat beans, that only really show up in farmers markets kind of late July, uh, you know, August. They're out around now, and gosh, they're so good. They're just like creamy.
LA: Yeah, this-
CM: You know, they have less of like the snap-
LA: Mm-hmm.
CM: ... that green beans do, but they have this creamy kind of unctuous kind of center. They don't want to get as crisp, as frizzly, you know, as-
LA: Mm.
CM: ... a green bean might... In the sort of dry fried application,-
LA: Yeah.
CM: ... but they also stew really wonderfully... But that's not what we're talking about, 'cause we're talking about peanut butter noodles and we're staying focused [laughs]. LA: Yeah. I mean, I love, I love a stew, but it's summer.
CM: Right. Exactly. So, you could... Point being, you could use this recipe as a bit of a template, and just adapt it to whatever veg you find. Because the intensity of peanut butter, given a sort of scaffolding of a little bit of vinegar, sweetness... You know, from honey, you know,
or maple syrup, a little bit of boost in umami from soy sauce. Like all of that can be extended and draped over veg as well as the noodles, and not get too diluted. Does that make sense? LA: That does make sense.
CM: Okay. I'll stop there.
SU: Those are great choices. CM: Thank you, Shilpa.
SU: Yeah. [laughs]
CM: I appreciate that.
SU: But I do think I have you beat [laughs].
CM: Oh. Of course [laughs].
LA: I am... I am feeling so spoiled right now.
SU: You s- [laughs] you should. Um... Okay, I have... Well, I do have some recipe suggestions, but I have a philosophy to take with you-
LA: Okay.
CM: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
SU: ... in which you can use [laughs]-
CM: Where were you for like the preamble then?
SU: [laughs] Which you can use in every rental that you go to. And you know, I was reading your notes, and then you said you're a chaotic cook... Which, so am I. There's friends with lots of allergies.
CM: You are not a chaotic cook.
SU: I can be chaotic.
CM: No.
SU: I can be, and you know that [laughs].
CM: I have not seen you chaotic.
SU: Okay [laughs].
CM: Strike that from the record.
SU: [laughs]
LA: Look, are you offering to make someone dinner, and then it's 10:00 PM and- SU: And that has happened.
LA: ... you're sloshing a martini around and they still haven't eaten?
SU: [laughs]
LA: 'Cause that's my style of cooking.
SU: [laughing]
CM: [laughing]
SU: That has certainly happened [laughing].
LA: [laughing]
SU: Um, the philosophy is you make lots of little things. That's the thing you need to do. And you don't task yourself with doing one big dish, okay? And the example that I want to give is like... Tacos, I think is a great dish to make in this exact situation, where everybody wants to eat a bunch of different things... Because they have a bunch of different allergies, and you don't probably want to cook a whole lot. And I think tacos are so great, because you can put all these fixings out and it's so easy. And I found a few like fillings that are really good. Um,-
CM: Fish tacos-
SU: Fish tacos [laughs].
CM: ... for lunch.
LA: Yeah. Classic.
CM: Put it on a plate for you, Shilpa.
SU: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
SU: I know, that's why I have it on my list, so. And I found you different taco fillings that you could do one in the oven, one on the stove top, and one on the grill,-
LA: Love that.
SU: ... so you don't have to-
CM: Wait, so you want her to do tacos, but with multiple fillings?
SU: You could, if you want. You know? And that way you can satisfy a bunch of people. Or you could just do one. But I'm just showing you there is a world of-
CM: Mm.
SU: ... opportunity here.
CM: Cool.
SU: And you have multiple options, and you can feed multiple people this way. The fish tacos that I'm referring to are Rachel's easy fish tacos. They get seared in a skillet. And the seasoning is very simple. It's just cumin and paprika, with salt.
You can make Zaynab's cauliflower tacos, which start with a base of like canned chipotle chilies, and then some spices. You toss the cauliflower with a bunch of oil, and you just bake it on a sheet tray. So while that's baking, you can heat up your tortillas. You can get canned salsa. It's fine. Nobody cares. Cut some limes, cut some onions. And there you have it. Set everything out, and everybody can fix the tacos with whatever takes their fancy.
LA: Love that.
CM: Yeah. That's like, there's a lot of genius in that.
SU: Yeah.
CM: And I think too, you know, with that as well, like pre-shopping... Bringing some things out, like don't go searching for chipotle chilies and adobo wherever you might be. I mean, if there's like a great, you know... Kind of like a Mexican or other Latin market, by all means have at it, but... That way you can just focus on getting the fish. You know?
You want to be able to go to the farmers market and like feel like there are options. You're not just like shopping like a very fixed list, like Romano beans or bust.
SU: [laughs] Yeah, bud.
CM: Is that it? You're done?
SU: That's, that's,-
CM: That's it?
SU: ... that's it. I'm done. But if you want to extend the philosophy, you can do it with a bunch of other things. Like, you can do pita bread with hummus and some other toppings. But basically, bits and bobs of things are always a good way to feed. And one-
LA: And, and low maintenance bits and bobs, right?
SU: Very much so.
LA: Yeah.
SU: Yeah.
LA: That feels key.
SU: Grill one thing or bake one thing, and then chop a bunch of other things. Put them out, and just tell people you went through all this effort when you actually didn't.
LA: Love that.
CM: Awesome. Well. I mean, listen. Whichever recipe you go with, I think you're in good hands. And I think tacos are nice, because it's like a great kind of framework to play with,- SU: Yeah.
CM: ... and you can decide how ambitious to get, in terms of like all of like the sauces and bits and bobs. But ultimately you could throw something together very quickly yourself, although... I don't know, like nightshade free sauce?
SU: Tomatillo salsa.
CM: That's a nightshade, isn't it?
SU: Oh [laughs].
CM: Right? I think-
LA: I think it's definitely a nightshade [laughing].
SU: [laughing]
CM: I think it's also [laughs]... You're like looking at me like I have seven heads, when you're the one that said that.
LA: It basically has tomato in the name [laughs].
SU: How about sour cream and the leftover canned chipotle-
CM: Yeah, like something creamy would be great.
SU: ... mixed together.
LA: I think the canned chipot-... Would a chip-, chipotle... That's not a nightsh- nightshade, right?
CM: That is, because-
SU: Yeah.
CM: ... it's actually a pepper.
LA: A chili pepper.
SU: Oh. No way [laughs].
LA: See? This is, this is the... This is my dilemma.
CM: This is why you do research.
SU: [laughs]
CM: Here I was defending you, Shilpa.
SU: I know. I'm sorry [laughs]. Hold on, I need to Google. [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
CM: Did-
SU: I need to Google what ev- all-
CM: What is a nightshade?
SU: ... what falls on... Oh, God.
CM: What do you got?
SU: White potatoes? Tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, and white potatoes are all what's known as nightshade vegetables. And ultimately, yams and sweet potatoes are not nightshades.
CM: So, cancel that chipotle chili cauliflower that Shilpa was trying to set you up to fail with.
SU: [laughs] Sabotage.
CM: And also,-
SU: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
CM: Oh, shit [laughs]. All that, Shilpa, paprika.
LA: [laughing]
SU: [inaudible 00:22:39] [laughing]-
CM: Paprika [laughing]. Paprika, paprika and cumin. I'm just sitting here like... SU: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
CM: Shilpa usually knows what she's talking about.
SU: Oh, the nightshades really tripped me up. Okay, nevermind [laughing]. LA: [laughing]
CM: Yeah, so cancel the last on the fish. We're gonna,-
SU: We need to re-tape this episode [laughs].
CM: ... we're gonna have to rethink-
SU: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
CM: ... on [laughing] the seasoning on the fish.
SU: [laughs] Literally everything.
LA: [laughs] I'm thinking of my poor friend, who would've had a terrible evening. SU: [laughs]
CM: Uh, God. It's hard.
SU: Oh my God.
CM: Nightshades are hard.
LA: It's a really tricky one.
CM: You think you've got it,-
SU: Oh, y-
CM: ... and then you don't have anything.
SU: Well, there's only one suggestion in this episode,-
CM: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
SU: ... right? And that's, [laughs] two types of tofu.
CM: No. I think fish tacos can work, though. Like, make like a cashew crema thing. You know what I mean? Like make a non-nightshadey salsa that's just like, you know, blistered onion and lime or just raw onion and lime and something else-
LA: A ton of lime.
CM: that I'm not thi-
LA: That's always good.
CM: There's so much lime.
LA: Cilantro?
SU: Yeah. Yeah, you can go cilantro.
CM: Cilantro.
SU: Oh, hold on. Okay. You know what? I need to redeem myself, because I can't. Um-
CM: Do you want to take five minutes-
SU: No.
CM: ... to just like do your research?
SU: I, I already took-
CM: [laughs]
SU: The, the repeated use of, "Do your research" is [inaudible 00:23:45]. [laughing]
CM: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
SU: Okay, we have a recipe for sizzling turmeric dill fish tacos,-
CM: Oh, those are Diana Yen.
SU: ... from Diana Yen.
CM: Those are so... You know what's so funny?
SU: I'm back in the game.
CM: When you mentioned fish tacos, for some reason, my brain went right to those tacos.
SU: Oh.
CM: Because they're in the style of like Cha ca La Vong,-
SU: Yeah.
CM: ... a very classic Vietnamese dish, with like the fish with like often with like dill... Et cetera, and then like the, the rice noodles. But that fish taco like takes the flavor profile in such an unexpected direction. You know, with that sort of like turmeric, et cetera.
SU: Mm-hmm.
CM: And it's a beautiful presentation too,-
SU: Mm-hmm.
CM: ... 'cause you basically make this skillet of like sizzling, bubbling fishy heaven, that you serve with tacos. But it's just lovely,-
SU: It is.
CM: ... and like any kind of flaky white fish would work there.
SU: Yeah. The recipe [laughs]-
CM: [laughing]
SU: ... calls for cod or halibut [laughing].
CM: [laughing] We have lost Shilpa.
LA: She's, she's gone [laughing].
CM: [laughing] She's-
SU: [laughing] I'm normally better than this.
LA: She [laughs]-
CM: New recommendation,-
SU: A new recommendation.
CM: ... Diana Yen's-
SU: Nitrate-free-
LA: [laughs]
SU: ... turmeric dill fish tacos.
CM: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
SU: [laughing] Yes.
LA: They sound perfect. Amazing.
CM: If we were making you yell, "That's a nightshade, you fools" at your podcast app... [laughs] And if you got any funny looks because of it, well, sorry, we're only human.
So armed with several viable ideas for her dinner companions, Lale went on vacation. After the break, we'll hear whether our solution pleased the group.
And we're back with Dinner SOS.
LA: I'm oddly nervous-
CM: Really?
LA: ... for the, for, for the voice memo and the book reveal.
CM: Wait, for the v- the story behind it or just like you don't want to hear your own voice in your memo?
LA: I mean, unfortunately, I have to hear my own voice, 'cause I talk on-
SU: [laughs] I was gonna say.
LA: ... the Women Who Travel podcast, but-
CM: But I don't know, maybe you have like an Adam Driver thing, and you're just like, "I have to leave the room while you play the tape," and like-
LA: Oh.
CM: I don't know. I don't know.
LA: I love this. Should I adopt this?
CM: Yeah.
SU: You should [laughs].
CM: This is like you. This is like your brand now. Just like, she just can't hear herself. She can speak-
LA: Yeah.
CM: ... on the podcast, but just never let her hear her own tape.
LA: And I'm also... I don't know, maybe I'll go method every now and then.
CM: Yeah. Totally.
LA: I'm wearing, I'm wearing chef's clothes right now,-
SU: [laughs] Oh yeah.
LA: ... and no one knows.
SU: [laughs]
LA: No. I think I'm nervous because I had to choose a recipe,-
CM: Oh.
LA: ... which felt political. But you know... Well, actually-
CM: No.
LA: No. Well, and I'm gonna ge- I'm gonna give something away if I say any more. CM: Okay.
SU: [laughs]
CM: That's fine. Well, that's a great inflection point. I'm gonna pass it over to Michele.
LA: Okay. So I'm starting to make dinner for everyone and first off, I had a couple of recipes to choose from, so I had the group vote. And I'm sorry, Chris, but they went for the fish tacos. They went fish [inaudible 00:26:53].
CM: Wow.
SU: I'm shocked [laughs].
LA: But there'll be another opportunity to cook the noodles, so don't worry, I'm gonna try both.
SU: [laughs]
CM: Did you do the easy fish-
SU: The one that almost [inaudible 00:27:01].
CM: ... tacos or the sizzling turmeric dill fish tacos?
LA: I did the easy.
CM: Oh, okay.
SU: Oh. Okay.
LA: Um, it felt like the easier one to do, because honestly, I didn't even want to open up a conversation about turmeric. So, I-
SU: Is it a nitrate?
LA: No, it's not.
SU: [laughs]
LA: Okay.
SU: [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
What's on your face?
SU: I was-
CM: I forgot that whole conversation happened [laughing].
SU: I, I can never forget that conversation [laughs]. It haunts me-
CM: Oh, I was,-
SU: ... [inaudible 00:27:26] [laughing].
LA: [laughing]
CM: ... I was so tired that day. It like, it's coming back as though in a dream.
LA: No, it was more that I was like, "If someone..." You know, turmeric can be quite a strong-
CM: Yeah. Yeah.
LA: ... flavor, and I was like, "If one person suddenly pipes up that they don't like turmeric, I'll lose my mind." So I did the easy fish tacos, 'cause then you could have lots of bits and bobs on the side. And I did... Which Chris, I think this was your suggestion, some really nice smoked... Just cans of like smoked chipotle peppers on the side, so-
CM: Oh, okay. Nice.
SU: Oh.
LA: ... no nightshade people could have that, plop it on.
SU: Sure.
CM: Yeah.
SU: Oh, smart.
CM: What did you do for seasoning on the fish, given that there was both like paprika and cayenne on the fish? Did you just go with like some cumin? Anything else?
LA: Did cumin,-
CM: Okay.
LA: ... and just went pretty light on the paprika, and it was fine.
CM: Okay. Oh, great.
SU: [laughs]
LA: And it was like just no one-
CM: Nobody died.
LA: No one died.
CM: The barometer of success on Dinner SOS.
LA: But, I did. I like real- really cut down the paprika, and then was like-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... people can take up the spice with the chipotle peppers or-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... some Cholula... Or whatever it is that I, we put out on the table.
CM: D- listen, this was a great choice. It's a great choice. It's a simple dish. I think it gives you exactly like what you needed. And plus, it's the product of a democratic process. SU: Yes [laughs].
CM: How could we not celebrate that?
LA: I took it to the people.
CM: Yeah. Oh, for sure. It was their will.
LA: It was.
CM: Cool. And then, did you have other toppings?
LA: I did the Sriracha sour cream on the side,-
CM: On the side, okay.
LA: ... so people could smear it on their tortillas. Which was great. That was so good, by the way. It was like the easiest thing I've ever made, and it was-
CM: Yeah.
LA: ... delicious. Um, cilantro on the side. I enlisted a friend to pick off all the leaves off the stems.
SU: Amazing.
LA: And sliced up lots of avocado, had that. I mean, really did like everything on the side, so-
CM: Nice.
LA: ... people could customize it. I think, Shilpa, that was one of the reasons why- CM: Yeah.
LA: ... you chose-
SU: Yes.
LA: ... fish tacos, 'cause it really is... And even like if you don't have specific dietary preferences or needs, everyone likes to dress and top their tacos slightly differently.
SU: Yes.
LA: And everyone has a system. Like, I like to do... If I have sour cream, or that delicious Sriracha crema thing,-
CM: Yeah, thingy. For sure.
LA: What? Thingy, thingy-me-bob.
I lke to put it on my tortilla first, and then do all the toppings. But I know there are some people who might want to drizzle it over the top.
SU: I'm definitely a spreader.
CM: Okay, just-
LA: [laughs]
SU: Yeah.
CM: ... had to, just had to confirm-
SU: Yeah.
CM: ... we're good here.
LA: And what about you?
CM: We're good.
LA: Oh, okay. So, we're all in agreement.
SU: Yeah. Y- yeah.
CM: Y- yeah. You nee-... Well, I mean, you need a base. I mean, you could put something else on top, but like-
LA: Yeah.
CM: You know.
LA: No, you need-
SU: Even distribution.
CM: Yeah.
SU: Yeah. For sure.
LA: And then... Actually, you know what? We had a debate as to whether to dice an onion or do very thin slices,-
SU: Hm.
LA: ... and we actually went for thin slices. My instinct would've been to dice, but we did the slices and it was quite good.
CM: What type of onion?
LA: You know what? I bought a red onion, and then I was like, "I think it should've been a white onion."
SU: No.
CM: No.
LA: And maybe if it was a w-
SU: I think a red onion was the way to go.
LA: You think a red was the way-
CM: No.
LA: Okay, good.
SU: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CM: Yeah.
LA: If it was a white onion, I would've diced it without thinking. But with a red,- SU: That's a good call.
LA: Yes [laughs].
SU: Wow, it's like-
CM: My goodness.
SU: ... you [laughs], you should work in the Test Kitchen, or something.
CM: Yes.
LA: [laughs]
SU: Great instinct.
CM: Like, a psychotically specific instinct-
SU: Yeah [laughs].
CM: ... about what to do in any given situation involving alliums.
LA: [laughs]
CM: Like, you could be one of us.
LA: I passed the test. I can't believe it.
SU: [laughs] You really did. That was a very spe-
CM: If it was German red garlic, I would've sliced it,-
LA: [laughing]
SU: [laughing]
CM: ... but if it was just standard white, I would've put it through the press.
Any, anything like go sideways on you?
LA: The only thing... And it wasn't even it went sideways [laughs], it was just I did what I said I always do when I cook dinner for people, which is that... You know, everyone's chatting, we're having a good time.
SU: [laughs]
LA: You know, my husband, Chris, made some like tequila sours.
CM: Ooh.
LA: He's a former bartender, so he makes very good cocktails.
SU: Ooh.
CM: Ooh. God.
LA: And it just meant I didn't start frying the fish until 9:00. But so, everyone was pre- SU: That's European.
LA: ... everyone was pretty hungry and kind of drunk.
CM: [laughs]
SU: That's a great... [laughs] I feel like that's a great combination for, for a dinner.
LA: But that's what you get when I cook dinner for you, so.
CM: That's great. We'll know what to expect. [laughing]
LA: [laughing]
CM: If you have a dinner emergency on your hands, write to us at [email protected] or leave us a voice message, at 212-286-SOS1. That's 212-286-7071. And reminder, we're looking for your Thanksgiving and Friendsgiving questions. Give us a holler, so we could talk turkey, or stuffing, or maybe even more importantly, pie.
You can find the recipes mentioned on today's episode... Sesame tofu with broccoli, peanut butter noodles with cucumbers, chipotle roasted cauliflower tacos, and two different
nightshade-flexible fish taco recipes on the Epicurious app, brought to you by Conde Nast. Just search Epicurious in the App Store, and download today.
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating and review on your podcast app of choice, and hit that follow button so you never miss an episode.
Dinner SOS is a Conde Nast Entertainment original podcast. I'm your host, CM. My cohost this week is SU. Our producer is Michele O'Brien. Peyton Hayes is our associate producer. Cameron Foos is our assistant producer. Jake Lummus is our studio engineer. Amar Lal makes this episode. Thanks to Gabe Quiroga for engineering help.
Next week, our annual Best New Restuarants list is nearly hot off the press, so restaurants editor, Elazar Sontag joins me in the studio to talk about the best things he ate all year, what it's really like to write about restaurants, and how the list gets put together.
Elazar Sontag: We make a list every year, but I always have this sort of little anxious voice in the back of my head wondering what would happen if by some, you know, absolute crisis there just weren't enough-
CM: Good restaurants [laughs].
ES: good restaurants.
CM: Hasn't happened yet.
ES: No, of course not.
CM: The way you need to think about seagulls is that basically there are like vicious raptors, circling around you.
LA: They're, they're bloody huge.
CM: Not this like, "Oh, they're like cute. Oh, let's like... Oh, let's like do a little water color of freaking-
LA: [laughs]
CM: ... one of these things on like a railing at the beach and a little seascape." No, it's like a [beep] Velociraptor, that flies.
LA: They're terrifying.